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The other solution is to say "well look, hang on.

Shiv Malik

our cities in this country certainly are incredibly environmentally destructive.

Shiv Malik

Just take traffic, for example. It creates a whole load of Co2

Shiv Malik

That's just one little small thing.

Shiv Malik

cars can't get from one place to another

Shiv Malik

they're congested

Shiv Malik

Imagine a city in which there wasn't not just traffic, but also you could build homes and houses and entire buildings and streets built with solar panels ...

Shiv Malik

weren't designed to live and breathe environmentally

Shiv Malik

that's not good for development within the cities, rather than expanding outwards, to restrict kind of the damage that urban areas do

Maddie Groeger-Wilson

people already own that land.

Shiv Malik

evict those people at very high cost, then we're gonna be stuck.

Shiv Malik

Michael Buerk

Shiv Malik